xShonuffx's UMvC3 guide for Thor

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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby xShonuffx » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:06 am

:attack-hard: :attack-hard: :attack-hard:
Non-e wrote:I used Thor quiet frequently in one of my reserved slot and I totally agree with most of the things said here...

There's one thing that I like to add, Mighty Strike is surprisingly useful. I use it to travel the distance and found that it eats up some of the fireballs (I think It was Deadpool's bullets but I'm not 100% sure). Instant Air L Mighty Strike if connects can be comboed to an Air L before you reached the ground. But Air M Mighty Strike is wonderful because it lifts the grounded enemy up for a launcher if it connects, which usually the case when you're against Sentinel.

Crouching M is great for hit confirming into M Mighty Smash launch though not if the enemy is crounching.

I had a run in with a really annoying Deadpool not too long ago, who shoots from full screen and when I superjumped, he did the "Quick as the wind" to switch sides. After the match I thought maybe I should have use H Mighty Strike to get straight back down though...


I agree with you. cr. :attack-medium: is a good hit confirm, the only problem is it's range. In most cases if you just get the very edge of their feet the cr. :attack-medium: will miss leaving you wide open. I have found that cr. or even st. :attack-hard: is better because you have more options just in case.

cr. :attack-light: , st. :attack-hard: on block will push the opponent almost a full character distance away, your still in recovery but your much more safer than if you ended with cr. :attack-medium:

Both st. and cr. :attack-hard: can combo into the same things cr. :attack-medium: can in most cases.

st. :attack-hard: will hit crouching opponents. I believe the exception is smaller characters like Ammy and such.

cr. or st. :attack-hard: can act as a frame trap. At it's worse, you will trade if their attack is fast enough.

cr. :attack-hard: can be canceled into Mighty Hurricane.

You can go into flight mode if you miss putting you over your opponents cr. :attack-light: which after you can begin your mix ups.

So as you can see cr. :attack-medium: may be a good hit confirm but :attack-hard: has more options that are safer.

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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby MrPowerhouse » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:39 am

thanks shonuff, really appreciate it!

edit: Granda06 LOL!

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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby DerQ » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:57 pm

First, grats for thy prize. It's good that people finally hear Thor's words to overcome evil-doers.
Spoiler: show
I couldn't resist

But yeah anyway, good to see finally a bit of people are here.

One thing I noticed is that doing a hit confirm with air :attack-light: mighty strike (air. :attack-hard: , :attack-light: mighty strike, air. :attack-light: ) can be a good way to mixup for twice the high attacks, but you can't combo out of that air.L or at least havn't explored enough to find something, which kinda makes the mixup a bit more useless. So far you would have to hit a mighty tornado as soon as you hit confirm the mighty strike. Theory crafting: What if you could slightly delay the air mighty strike just a little and then hit out of it with air. :attack-light: ? Let me explain, when you charge the air mighty strike, Thor is still going down. He doesn't fully freeze up to where he started the animation unlike mighty spark. If you let Thor lower his attitude just slightly enough, I think you might have time to land after the air.L and then follow up on the ground.

Second, I've tried faking using air.H and mix it up with air.L so I can attempt grabbing the opponent with a mighty hurricane when landing. It's good since it uses less hitstun, meaning your opponent will have to react faster. The thing is that when trying it for about 5 minutes in the lab, Thor did weird things. So I try doing the triangle dash while doing this and when I hit the ground and input the grab, thor would just back dash and then jump back. When I say that I meant very quickly. I'm gonna have to try it again see what I was doing wrong, looking back on it is possible I inputted the hurricane with 2 buttons. Would Thor's backdash or front dash be jump cancellable. Like I said, it was weird and I need to explore more when I have the time.

I wanted to talk about a last thing, but can't remember ATM, but I remembered of another thing.

Thor's Mighty (DHC) punish bait
Spoiler: show
A friend of mine plays thor/spencer/taskmaster (switch 2 and 3 for accurate order I believe) and he's got a pretty gimmicky but interesting idea. Basically, when doing and unsafe hyper, DHC to Thor's hyper. It's actually a valid strategy, do something unsafe, bait the punish then just DHC to punish that punish. Thor's way of doing it though can be very VERY strong. You just DHC to mighty punish. How does that work? Some Hypers can be DHC'd after the hitstun for the hyper is over.

Pros
-This hyper unlike some others is pretty much a 1 or 2 frame. It won't be interrupted like let's say Dormammu's fireball which still has a little startup after Hyper freeze.
-Other characters could do this trap because Thor's not the only one with an Hyper grab BUT! Thor is the only one with a level 1 grab hyper. You wouldn't risk wasting too much meter that manner.
-Some Hypers works great with this. Especially one with a low amount of startup or that don't generate hitstun.
-Can make an unsafe hyper turn into a mighty punish

Cons
-If missed, you'll need an XFC if you don't want Thor to eat a punish combo to that.
-You'll need to find hypers that work with this, hypers pushing back won't do good with this.
-Might not fit your team
-(Depending on your playstyle) won't work well if you have Thor on point in your team composition.

To give you a few examples, my friend using Spencer just does a bionic arm. That super is so fast it pretty much works as a counter and it's also highly invincible. Although it's very unsafe when blocked. He noticed that at some point during the animation, the hitstun finishes but you can still DHC. (From memory, it's around when Spencer touches the ground with one of it's arm). Another example is with counter hypers. Make a guess with Task or Wesker to use their counter hyper and if it whiffs, logically the opponent should walk towards you and wait for a time to punish, by this point he should be in range for a DHC to mighty punish.

Heck if you're ballsy, you can even use Deadpool's hyper 3 which would work great with this. Deadpool just walks to the opponent and it lasts quite long. Meaning it would be highly unlikely for him to run away from that and that'd be a guaranteed hit. Although for 4 meters, just use it to style.

Finally, time hypers would work well with this, although not as well as counters or other hypers because there isn't as much rewards. Sure you get the powered up assist, but setting up such a trap would just be much more risky than setting up with a counter or using punish bait. Although, if you aim at Thor with the mindset of the DHC trick, this could be an extra obscure option to think of. I just can't think of a valid setup for this to work. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby shannaro!!! » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:07 pm

I have need of thee!

I'm thinking about trying out Thor, and I was wondering which chracters complement him the best and which team position is Thor most suited taking his strengths and weaknesses into account. Also, great Central Discussion by the way.
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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby xShonuffx » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:51 am

shannaro!!! wrote:I have need of thee!

I'm thinking about trying out Thor, and I was wondering which chracters complement him the best and which team position is Thor most suited taking his strengths and weaknesses into account. Also, great Central Discussion by the way.


Well Thor is slow so you need to be as highly mobile as possible without much rest. This means going into the air alot or tri-dashing across screen. But it's easy for Thor to get stuffed by your opponents assist or the opponent himself if he just throws out some random attack. So you need to keep the screen filled with a lot of stuff while Thor is moving.

If your just starting out with Thor try Sentinel and his Drones, they are great for slowing down your opponent while you put pressure on the pressure. Call Drones and Super Jump, Dash Forward and press :attack-hard:. if you miss chances are they will be hit and save you from getting punished.

Doom and Hidden Missiles are also pretty good for slowing down rushdown characters. You can use the time the Missiles are in the air to get in and stat your mix ups.

The next thing you need is an assist character thats gonna extend combos, more preferably OTG assist like X-23 or C.Viper (Who I use). Viper compliments Thor in a weired way and it works. You can also use characters with invincible start ups like Tron's Gustaff Fire, Haggar's Double Lariet (if you want another slowpoke) or Amaterasu's Cold Star. Ammy is pretty good cuz it act's as a nice get off me move as well as a pressure tool.

Jwong used Hsien Ko in recent tournaments but he had her as point. Although I understood the reason I really would'nt put Hsien Ko as point because she has crap health and horrible mobility just like Thor. If you do manage to get her Hyper Armor and switch to Thor, Hsien Ko will compliment Thor in so many ways, even to extend combos. I don't use her in my Thor team but she is on my Taskmaster team where she also shines well here.

I hope this helps.

It's also worth nothing that some characters work better as point than Thor, so even if Thor is your main you may need to put someone else as point. For example you may want Magneto to build meter with his Rom combos then DHC to Thor's Hypers and let him do the rest of the work.

I would'nt use Thor as anchor though unless you keep your X-Factor for him. if the odds are 3 to 1 your gonna have a hard time, especially if they are good zoning characters.

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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby DerQ » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:07 am

shannaro!!! wrote:I have need of thee!

I'm thinking about trying out Thor, and I was wondering which chracters complement him the best and which team position is Thor most suited taking his strengths and weaknesses into account. Also, great Central Discussion by the way.


I can't tell you what works because I am still working on a final solution. hehe

Anyhow, the last thing you want though is having Thor as a guaranteed anchor because he's bad as a last character.
-Saving XF3 for him is stupid because you can nearly 100% half the cast in one combo on XF1. I think he gains less than 20% speed. Not worth it.
-If Thor is alone against a bad matchup, good luck overcoming that disadvantage. Especially if you are out numbered.

Ok maybe you can be good enough with Thor to overcome anything, but it's still pretty hard. To me, if Thor can't play his game against a certain matchup, you need a backup plan. Using Thor as your last resort is just asking for trouble IMO. Although, if you like just using XFC 3 on him, you won't even have to finish combos and you'll kill anyone à la Spencer during final round. At least, if you're picking him up, I suggest not using that strategy at first.

What works best for me so far is having a setup for Thor. One DHC, one aerial team combo, both ending in a mighty tornado. If you already land a full combo with a char and then switch to Thor, make the math, you land about 450K plus a mighty Tornado, which should add 250K. It's fairly easy to DHC to a mighty tornado or even mighty thunder if you're funky. Heck if your team composition allows it, you can even make a point character DHC to Thor and use the DHC trick. Since Thor hurst so much, this is usually a 100% combo.

Also, Thor's assists are fairly good. Smash gives ground bounces which in some cases greatly extends combos or even begins combos. Spark can also extends a tad combo (For instance: Zero's command dive kick OTG combined with this works well) and has more range than previous assists. The last one I think might only be the best in a scenario where you want to do a cross-over counter. Havn't really explored, but it's my guess.

If you're beginning with Thor, I suggest having him second and finding good characters to set him up.
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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby shannaro!!! » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:44 pm

Thanks guys!
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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby DerQ » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:44 pm

DerQ wrote:Thor's Mighty (DHC) punish bait
Spoiler: show
A friend of mine plays thor/spencer/taskmaster (switch 2 and 3 for accurate order I believe) and he's got a pretty gimmicky but interesting idea. Basically, when doing and unsafe hyper, DHC to Thor's hyper. It's actually a valid strategy, do something unsafe, bait the punish then just DHC to punish that punish. Thor's way of doing it though can be very VERY strong. You just DHC to mighty punish. How does that work? Some Hypers can be DHC'd after the hitstun for the hyper is over.

Pros
-This hyper unlike some others is pretty much a 1 or 2 frame. It won't be interrupted like let's say Dormammu's fireball which still has a little startup after Hyper freeze.
-Other characters could do this trap because Thor's not the only one with an Hyper grab BUT! Thor is the only one with a level 1 grab hyper. You wouldn't risk wasting too much meter that manner.
-Some Hypers works great with this. Especially one with a low amount of startup or that don't generate hitstun.
-Can make an unsafe hyper turn into a mighty punish

Cons
-If missed, you'll need an XFC if you don't want Thor to eat a punish combo to that.
-You'll need to find hypers that work with this, hypers pushing back won't do good with this.
-Might not fit your team
-(Depending on your playstyle) won't work well if you have Thor on point in your team composition.

To give you a few examples, my friend using Spencer just does a bionic arm. That super is so fast it pretty much works as a counter and it's also highly invincible. Although it's very unsafe when blocked. He noticed that at some point during the animation, the hitstun finishes but you can still DHC. (From memory, it's around when Spencer touches the ground with one of it's arm). Another example is with counter hypers. Make a guess with Task or Wesker to use their counter hyper and if it whiffs, logically the opponent should walk towards you and wait for a time to punish, by this point he should be in range for a DHC to mighty punish.

Heck if you're ballsy, you can even use Deadpool's hyper 3 which would work great with this. Deadpool just walks to the opponent and it lasts quite long. Meaning it would be highly unlikely for him to run away from that and that'd be a guaranteed hit. Although for 4 meters, just use it to style.

Finally, time hypers would work well with this, although not as well as counters or other hypers because there isn't as much rewards. Sure you get the powered up assist, but setting up such a trap would just be much more risky than setting up with a counter or using punish bait. Although, if you aim at Thor with the mindset of the DHC trick, this could be an extra obscure option to think of. I just can't think of a valid setup for this to work. Feel free to prove me wrong though.


So I experimented a bit and the results were pretty obvious. A lot of hypers work really well with this gimmick. Some are actually a trap. Here's the general rules if a hyper would work or not:
-If it's a 1 hit hyper that triggers an animation if it hits. Example: Deadpool's cut time
-Hypers where the last hits misses are great. By last hit missing, I mean characters ascending during the end of the hyper. For instance: Viper's emergency combination, captain commando's stars & stripes, X-23's rage trigger, etc.
-Some hypers will travel quite a distance and won't even generate hitstun if well spaced. Jill's raven spike, deadpool's cut time.

In the scenario where the last hits of the first hyper is mid-air, if the opponent jumps, he should jump into the active Hyper. Unless you time the jump perfectly to escape the incoming grab. The only way I'd figure you could escape (no testing done) is through a cross-over counter.

Explore with your team, I havn't manage to pull it off yet, but it's looking pretty sick on cam.
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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby xShonuffx » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:28 am

DerQ wrote:
DerQ wrote:snip....


Very interesting. I'll have to test it on my free time. If I find it a viable stratagy with this, i'll post it in the stratagy section.

Personally I think throwing random Hypers without covering yourself is reckless but I understand there may be situations where you may miscalculate.

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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby DerQ » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:40 am

xShonuffx wrote:Very interesting. I'll have to test it on my free time. If I find it a viable stratagy with this, i'll post it in the stratagy section.

Personally I think throwing random Hypers without covering yourself is reckless but I understand there may be situations where you may miscalculate.


Nothing prevents you from calling an assist to cover up a bit too :P. If you want to switch out your character, it's an alternative to DHC like this to using a direct switch which are also punishable.

I agree that it is a gimmick. But some hypers are actually pretty good at getting through your opponent for they have invincibility.

X-23's weapon x prime goes through projectiles and just has great invincibility overall. If you miscalculate your attempt at using this invincibility, you have a backup plan if Thor comes next on your team. In the cases of some hypers, you might even chip or actually land something. I can also see this as useful in a scenario where you drop a combo. DHC to safety by grabbing the guy :)

If you take deadpool's gun time full screen, you don't even hit the guy (Like doing an empty jump to grab) and the hitbox on deadpool is probably low as hell meaning you could dodge projectiles and insta grab.

Now not all hypers are meant to work well with this, I agree. But what if you can cover yourself with a throw afterwards in the case of a counter hyper. Literally, it's a case where you can't be hit for a few seconds and if your opponent waits near to you to punish, you can grab him out of that unhittable state. Picture if Dudley could grab you out of a failed cross-counter. Depending on the matchup though, wouldn't want to do that against porjectile based characters who can punish from a distance.

Other exemple, I use spencer and I guess I'll go through a full screen projectile with bionic arm. The opponent sees the bionic arm and XFC to save his ass. He still has to block my hyper, and I can cancel it when the hitstun is over into a grab. That not only lands a grab if succeed, but makes the opponent waste some of his XF.

I agree it's a gimmick, but like I said, Thor has the only level 1 hyper. The most you can lose is two hyper bars and 1 free combo on Thor. Technically, Thor can handle getting hit by 1 combo. In the case where you'd do that for an hyper 3, it'd be retardedly risky to gamble so much.

This whole gimmick, I do not see it as a valid and consistant strategy. But if you can pull it off once in a match with the correct setup, you get a free 300K or more if you have more meter. If you also just land a little damage with the first character and switch to Thor, at this point you only need one combo to finish him off with most of the cast. I see it as a one time use only per match and again depending on the matchup.
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