xShonuffx's UMvC3 guide for Thor

shannaro!!!
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Re: Thor -- Central Discussion

Postby shannaro!!! » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:46 pm

MIGHTY COMMENT!!!
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DerQ
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Re: Thor -- Central Discussion

Postby DerQ » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:00 pm

I'll be thy first to post in thy case.

Ok enough thy way to talk... DAMNIT!

Anyhow, here's some very early notices I've had about playing thor.

Mobility
Spoiler: show
Thor's mobility is very limited and one of the ways to improve it is through his air dash. To give a comparison to anyone who's played super street fighter 4: He's like Makoto in the sense that using air mobility > walking. Maybe not the best example since Makoto's ground dash are so good. Anyway, make sure you always cancel your air dashes into an attack right away or else Thor will just float at the end of the dash for a few seconds. Usually I use air. :attack-hard: since it lasts until landing and combos well. I havn't checked hitboxes or run test on it, but I believe air. :exchange: is a safer option, but it's slower on startup and won't remain active until landing.

There are some cons though, some characters can punish the air. Jumping against let's say Magneto when he can do a gravity squeeze or shockwave is a bad idea. Also take note that air. :attack-hard: is likely to get beaten by st. :exchange: . It might not be safe.

I havn't experimented much with his ground specials to improve mobility. I'm sure mighty smash is fairly safe if you get to land on your oppnent's face and so should mighty strike. (THEORY CRAFTING)

It also makes sense for the god of thunder to have the strongest mobility while flying.


Air mixups
Spoiler: show
Thor has surprisingly a high/low mixup game. It might not be the biggest around, but I'm sure you can have some strong mixups or very surprising to say the least this early at the lifespan of Thor.

When you superjump against an enemy, you have the control to choose where you dash. This means fake dashing, making look like a crossup then coming back. Before dashing you can anticipate or watch your opponent's movement and then realize where you should dash. Also, you would be surprised how fast Thor can travel the whole screen.

air. :attack-hard: is cancelable. One of the mixups that potentially works and would still require some testing (Theory crafting) is air. :attack-hard: cancelled into a mighty strike ( :attack-light: or :attack-medium: ). Mighty strike can be blocked low, but it can delay the time before you land or even keep you mid air. It also serves as a hit confirm (which Thor can't do that well). If you use :attack-light: mighty strike, you can follow up afterwards with another air attack. Here's a little scenario:
air.H :attack-hard: canceled to :attack-light: Mighty strike followed by air. :attack-light: (CONFIRMED TO ALL CONNECT)

I don't know if air.M :attack-medium: or air. :attack-hard: connects, but the above is confirmed.

Where does that leave us? You can hit confirm through a mighty strike and cancel to a mighty tornado. If not mistaken, at this height, you could potentially extend the combo, since you'll land right away after the tornado(Could be mistaken). It's also a way of landing two air attacks in one blockstring. If he blocks the air.L, when you land you are in potentially good position to land a grab due to a lower hitstun on a light attack. (THEORY CRAFTING)

Thor can also flight cancel his air basics. Once again, land air. :attack-hard: cancel to flight for more overheads. (THEORY CRAFTING)

One of the things I found to be annoying for others is using :attack-hard: air Mighty strike (Goes down vertically). It delays your time mid air making a mixup or baiting a punish from your opponent. If your opponent tries and dash under your super jump, this will input his mighty spark instead ( :joystick-down: :joystick-down-right: :joystick-right: ) and leave thor midair for the beginning animation, giving you more time to consider your action before landing. (Happens quite a lot actually)


Covering up Thor

Spoiler: show
After seeing Mike Ross play Thor in the show he hosts with Gootecks, you can make Thor's normal safe. If you ever reach a blockstring up to a :attack-hard: or even a :attack-medium: , Thor can be punished since he's so slow. Mike Ross called an assist to add blockstun at the same time he ended his blockstrings with :exchange: . He did it very clerverly as his assist (Hulk I believe with gamma charge - ground) was pushing back the opponent near the corner, which is where Thor has twice the possibilities for resets into mighty hurricane. It also makes it easier to predict enemy movement when using air dashes since he can only attempt moving forward.

THE NEXT PART IS THEORY CRAFTING

I assume you have two options to cover up for Thor, the one above or using a projectile assist before super jumping. That would give you some extra hitstun limiting your opponent's movement. Assumed you pushed the opponent in the corner using the above manner, I'm pretty confident you can force the opponent to block using this manner.

This one I'm a little less confident in (Due to time constraints and pushblock): Assuming your opponent will block, use a quick projectile assists to add some blockstun or bait evading from your opponent (No front dash for you) and do the longest string you can with Thor (air. :attack-hard: , air. :attack-medium: Mighty Strike , :attack-light: (LAND), cr. :attack-light: , cr. :attack-hard: , :exchange: + second assist) . I'm not entirely sure the assist cooldown will be up to let you use that second assist and it might possible to extend even more this block string with a mighty smash but you would logically get pushblocked.

Also if you are fast enough, you can use hidden missiles and land a reset into a throw before the missiles land.


Team Aerial combos

Spoiler: show
Want some good damage and an easy setup for Thor? All you need is one team aerial counter into a very basic air series by Thor canceled into an hyper. Thor just entered the field, he didn't show you a slightest of his strategy and he just got 50% of your health. Pretty intimadating. Plus you can have another character setting up Thor in the corner upperhand.


Conclusion
Spoiler: show
Depending on the matchup, control the air with Thor and observe his comportment. Depending on the matchup, you could have a few presets options more likely to work against some characters. I am still getting a feel of Thor and need to work on my spacing, so consider that all of this "strategy" comes from someone considering he could be doing a much better job.

Early on with Thor, you can surprise your opponent with a fast air combo. Right now, I keep missing my air attacks on moving opponents as they readjust. Get a fast surprise and then observe how your opponent will react. You can use delaying mentionned in the air muxps section to stay longer mid air and choose the best option for landing. Once you've found how he reacts, you either readjust or keep doing what you do.

Thor needs to be covered up. By himself, he probably won't do much (Unless he has XFC-3, and even there). Using assists are therefore fairly important and choosing the right blockstrings too.

Most of this theory crafting and exploration started from what I observed watching Mike Ross on Marvelous adventure. His Thor is very interesting. If you want to see a lot of what I've explained, go watch the last 3-4 episodes and look at his Thor, then see for yourself what works and what doesn't.


I'll find some videos a friend once sent me and link them here when I find them back :S
Last edited by DerQ on Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Thor -- Central Discussion

Postby xShonuffx » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:13 am

DerQ wrote: snip...


Hey thanks for the contribution, your analogy of Thor as like being Makoto was my exact same assumption so we are both on the same page. I'll use your infor as a good introduction to Thor and give you credit.

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Re: Thor -- Central Discussion

Postby DerQ » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:57 am

xShonuffx wrote:Hey thanks for the contribution, your analogy of Thor as like being Makoto was my exact same assumption so we are both on the same page. I'll use your infor as a good introduction to Thor and give you credit.


Oh btw just to clarify even more a lot of things. I edited my post to clearly indicate what is theory crafting and what is confirmed. Some of it may not work like my old theory crafting. (Canceling thor's special into flight, sadly you can't)

Although it is still possible to cancel them into the meter building taunt ( :joystick-charge-down: :attack-hard: ). Instead of having the recovery of the Mighty Spark, might as well build around 1/3 or 1/4 of a meter instead of just waiting out the recovery.
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Re: Thor -- Central Discussion

Postby xShonuffx » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:33 pm

DerQ wrote:
xShonuffx wrote:Hey thanks for the contribution, your analogy of Thor as like being Makoto was my exact same assumption so we are both on the same page. I'll use your infor as a good introduction to Thor and give you credit.


Oh btw just to clarify even more a lot of things. I edited my post to clearly indicate what is theory crafting and what is confirmed. Some of it may not work like my old theory crafting. (Canceling thor's special into flight, sadly you can't)

Although it is still possible to cancel them into the meter building taunt ( :joystick-charge-down: :attack-hard: ). Instead of having the recovery of the Mighty Spark, might as well build around 1/3 or 1/4 of a meter instead of just waiting out the recovery.


I've been using that tactic recently, againts some point characters without a long range retaliation tool, it's quite annoying to them.

I'm finding Deadpool however to be quite annoying to Thor, im trying to find some good stratagies againts the Merc with a mouth. His zoning game is too good. When I carefully make my way close to Deadpool he pools the whole "SF4 air tatsu out of the corner" type tactic fustratitng Thor even more usually forcing me to tag in another partner which maybe what I don't want in some cases.

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Re: Thor -- Central Discussion

Postby DerQ » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:48 am

xShonuffx wrote:... fustratitng Thor even more usually forcing me to tag in another partner which maybe what I don't want in some cases.

I also feel this is where Thor truly lacks. A bad matchup feels like a 1-9 matchup at the time being. For instance I'm thinking of Wolverine at the moment. It feels like overcoming a bad matchup is the hardest thing to do as Thor.

Meaning that leaving Thor alone at the end of the match by himself is probably a bad idea. Sure he'll gain 220% damage with XFC which is guaranteed to one shot anyone in 2 hits, but it's just not worth it. Again, this should be highly dependent on the team you are facing.

But it ain't that bad, setup Thor one time in a DHC for an extra 200k, have ONE surprising and fast combo (to the opponent) and you will have dealt enough damage to kill one character. And with Thor's life, it might just not be that bad.

Oh and also, Deadpool's zoning is good? I thought it was annoying to the most, but not really that much of a hassle. Although, deadpool's popularity clearly lowered recently, I figured I have yet to see a good one. But what aspect exactly do you think makes Deadpool X Thor a bad matchup for us. This would surely go in the character section on the first page.

Just to avoid double post

I just watched those vids you linked. Didn't think they'd be worth it but I didn't knew Justin Wong has touched Thor. Brilliant play on his side. I saw few fake overheads using :attack-light: . I saw a load of air. :attack-hard: , I SAW AIR MOBILITY that is Thor My friend. But as you can notice in those vids, you can't just go ALL IN with Mr.T by himself, you've gotta fake going in. I swear to god, just watch these vids and just TRY to guess when Thor will attempt to get in your face. It is really hard and that's where Thor will come as a surprise to others.

Also, there is a mind game that is likely to happen if you fake going in. What is likely to happen is that your opponent will back if he has a mindset of blocking or he's playing a turtling character. Look at the Cody match when Thor is up against Magneto. If it wasn't for Magneto moving a bit forward every time both are fullscreen apart from each other, Magneto would have just found himself in the corner very fast. And they can't crouch block you either, meaning that unless they take that step forward or attempt to counter your dashes in, they will end up being in the corner. Thor's corner pressure is weak for sure, but he can dashes the whole screen so fast that you only need to be midscreen to apply that corner pressure and it's much harder to escape the corner on a full screen scale. To escape that corner against Thor, you need to cross half the screen and there is a Thor blocking your way.

Last little tip, to apply those corner resets, you pretty much only need to start combos midscreen. In this case, the only scenario where you can't land those resets is if you were cornered. BUT WAIT, Thor can crossup meaning a combo reset is pretty much possible in any scenario.

As I was typing I thought out of a little detail, since there's no differences in between pressing :attack-hard: or :joystick-right: :attack-hard: while mid air, you might as well input either forward or back as you are pressing it, it would input a grab in some scenarios which would be better than the slow startup on the air. :attack-hard: .

Spoiler: show
Geez I type a lot...
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Re: Thor -- Central Discussion

Postby xShonuffx » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:03 pm

After playing Thor a bit more online (eck) I notice Thor's Tri Dash back L is very fast. It almost look's like Magneto stuff which is scary. Good way to escape pressure when you need breathing room.

Yeah Thor is for smart people, you can't go on automatic pilot with Thor.

I also think it's important to always threaten with Mighty Hurricane. i was playing a match which was going quite slow, he had a good rushdown team but I was too smart to get caught by all the gimmicks so he resulted in being highly defensive with Wesker (Yeah). He blocked everything it was silly it was basially us taking turns blocking shots and it resulted in a lot of time outs. After a few matches I decided I would set up for Thors grabs. After successfully punishing his overly defensive position it forced him to act recklessly making it easy to counter his attacks.

As long as you can find a way to take a peson out of their comfort zone, Thor will always be a viable threat. your right you can't always go all in, sometimes you have to be like a cat waiting for the right moment to strike.

Like a Tiger...grrr.

April 15th is around the corner. I've been busy with school, i'll try to put the finishing touches on the guide, frame date and such.

Programming is haaaaard!

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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby Non-e » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:44 am

I used Thor quiet frequently in one of my reserved slot and I totally agree with most of the things said here...

There's one thing that I like to add, Mighty Strike is surprisingly useful. I use it to travel the distance and found that it eats up some of the fireballs (I think It was Deadpool's bullets but I'm not 100% sure). Instant Air L Mighty Strike if connects can be comboed to an Air L before you reached the ground. But Air M Mighty Strike is wonderful because it lifts the grounded enemy up for a launcher if it connects, which usually the case when you're against Sentinel.

Crouching M is great for hit confirming into M Mighty Smash launch though not if the enemy is crounching.

I had a run in with a really annoying Deadpool not too long ago, who shoots from full screen and when I superjumped, he did the "Quick as the wind" to switch sides. After the match I thought maybe I should have use H Mighty Strike to get straight back down though...

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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby MrPowerhouse » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:42 am


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Re: xShonuffx's MvC3 guide for Thor

Postby xShonuffx » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:41 am

MrPowerhouse wrote:how come my combos never got any exposure/credit? they're easy to execute and they deal tons of damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8W3eWkpSug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjVCAKg9-L8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHdVyTF_Ohc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKaexdCsXBM


lol nice combos, I did'nt use them cuz I need awsome folks like you to post them. :P
Believe it or not as much searching as I did on Youtube it's very hard to find Thor Combos. The combos I have posted is not all of them I have a ton but I was just tied up last week with school. I'll put these in the combo vids and give credit. thanks MrPowerhouse.


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