Birdie's Chain secretly a striking move?

NightRiderRonin
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:28 am
PSN Gamertag: NightRonin80

Birdie's Chain secretly a striking move?

Postby NightRiderRonin » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:13 pm

For the sake of expediency, I am going to assume that everyone is familiar with the basic hit properties of Birdies chain grab ( :joystick-down: :joystick-down-right: :joystick-right: :kick: )

The thing that sets Birdie's chain apart from other moves, is that it is blockable, and you can't trade against the actual chain itself. It's like a command throw that you can block at long range. If you are close enough, you can knock Birdie out of the chain when he throws it, but that isn't beating the chain, that is beating him (similar to if I sweep someone out of a Hadoken while they actually do it). When you do this, you don't trade with Birdie either, you beat him clean, because the attack portion is the chain, not Birdie.

However, I found one instance where this isn't the case:

Replay 4B4B61D77 shows an instance where I trade :joystick-down: :joystick-down-right: :joystick-right: :kick-hard: chain against what looks to be Juri's :joystick-right: :joystick-down: :joystick-down-right: :punch-2x: dp. Note that it's a true trade: she takes damage, and so do I. Also note that I am actively doing the chain, I didn't stop doing it and cancel into bullhead or anything. She hits me right as I throw the chain up. Finally, note that I am not doing EX chain, it's just a normal chain.

In case the oddity in this isn't clear to you, let me explain: given the chain's properties, you would think that either I would have been hit out of it cleanly, or I would have grabbed Juri cleanly: either she is thrown or I am hit out of the throw. What actually happened is akin to throwing a punch at Zangief during his running tackle, and both you and Zangief taking a hit, even though Zangief's running tackle is a flat out throw.

What's more, I have tried in training mode to reproduce this, to see if I can just hit people in the air using Birdie's start up frames on his chain, and so far, no such luck. I either throw them, or miss them completely. Then too, I don't have super reflexes, nor actual testing equipment to try this out on. I don't know if this has any actual use whatsoever, as it seems to be really dependent on a lot of stuff to happen (other person is doing an EX, hits you out of first frame of throw at the right distance), but it seems like an interesting effect if it holds true across the board: some grapple moves actually being strikes on their first frame, and being able to trade with hits.

NightRiderRonin
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:28 am
PSN Gamertag: NightRonin80

Re: Birdie's Chain secretly a striking move?

Postby NightRiderRonin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:27 pm

Another instance. This replay is 4B50ADD95. With about 83 remaining on the clock in round 3, opponent's Ed jumps in on me, we trade off his jumping kick and my HK chain. So if nothing else, this doesn't seem to be a one off or single character bug, there's at least two people this affects now.


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