Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

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Lionwrath
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Re: Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

Postby Lionwrath » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:09 pm

Updated guide with unblockables...

tariikz wrote:I am also struggling against thawk.
it might be just that im quite slow but i cant punish his condor spire even though its like -6 or -7 on block. its kinda hard to keep him out, sometimes when i try to antiair him with the hk fireball he can simply EX condor dive on reaction and i get hit, he scored a knockdown and i can consider myself dead. and sometimes he jumps over the hk fireball (i don't even know how he's doing that) the matchup is actually 7-3 in juris favor so i guess i am not aware of some mighty juri tech yet or the matchup is actually just bullshit. it never really feels that the matchup is in my favor since he can react on everything i do most of the time.

I personally suck when going against T-Hawk. I constantly use lk fireballs even though his condor spire goes over it and get tagged or lose positioning. And I never seemingly watch his meter and consequently get hit by ex dive a lot more than I should. His ex dive is safe on hit and sometimes (i'm not sure how but it will Hit on block and he recovers right next to charcters which is a huge surprise factor and I'm not sure if there is recovery but I nearly always get grabbed right after.

Where as I feel Juri can control Gief and bait out Ex green hand (which I feel is the biggest threat of the matchup). I feel I have to be more wary when facing Hawk. Hawk's normals (imo) are better than Gief's and Hawk can compete with most of Juri's normals. His cr.forward has beaten my cr.forward a lot of times and he can use condor spire to go over it and it hits.

I feel like a Hawk can easily beat Juri through patience. He has the health to take risks just like Gief. He can stay back and whiff his command grab in between Juri's stores and releases to gain meter for ex dive and ex spire. I feel guessing between two moves that are both fireball invincible is huge threat to Juri and gives Hawk a slight advantage against Juri. Spire is also a really good anti air and I've seen it trade with her dive kick and beat more air normals than I wish. Far forward and maybe far strong seem to be Juri's best normal(s) against Hawk imo.

But Juri could easily close out the match against Hawk. She can safe jump him easily and get a nice high/low mixup to force him to guess (fuzzy) besides ultra and ex spd but meaty close mk beats almost all wake up options outside his ex tomahawk (this was tested in AE not sure what his buffs were for 2012).

Hope this helps dude.
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Re: Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

Postby tariikz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:26 am

Lionwrath wrote:Updated guide with unblockables...

tariikz wrote:I am also struggling against thawk.
it might be just that im quite slow but i cant punish his condor spire even though its like -6 or -7 on block. its kinda hard to keep him out, sometimes when i try to antiair him with the hk fireball he can simply EX condor dive on reaction and i get hit, he scored a knockdown and i can consider myself dead. and sometimes he jumps over the hk fireball (i don't even know how he's doing that) the matchup is actually 7-3 in juris favor so i guess i am not aware of some mighty juri tech yet or the matchup is actually just bullshit. it never really feels that the matchup is in my favor since he can react on everything i do most of the time.

I personally suck when going against T-Hawk. I constantly use lk fireballs even though his condor spire goes over it and get tagged or lose positioning. And I never seemingly watch his meter and consequently get hit by ex dive a lot more than I should. His ex dive is safe on hit and sometimes (i'm not sure how but it will Hit on block and he recovers right next to charcters which is a huge surprise factor and I'm not sure if there is recovery but I nearly always get grabbed right after.

Where as I feel Juri can control Gief and bait out Ex green hand (which I feel is the biggest threat of the matchup). I feel I have to be more wary when facing Hawk. Hawk's normals (imo) are better than Gief's and Hawk can compete with most of Juri's normals. His cr.forward has beaten my cr.forward a lot of times and he can use condor spire to go over it and it hits.

I feel like a Hawk can easily beat Juri through patience. He has the health to take risks just like Gief. He can stay back and whiff his command grab in between Juri's stores and releases to gain meter for ex dive and ex spire. I feel guessing between two moves that are both fireball invincible is huge threat to Juri and gives Hawk a slight advantage against Juri. Spire is also a really good anti air and I've seen it trade with her dive kick and beat more air normals than I wish. Far forward and maybe far strong seem to be Juri's best normal(s) against Hawk imo.

But Juri could easily close out the match against Hawk. She can safe jump him easily and get a nice high/low mixup to force him to guess (fuzzy) besides ultra and ex spd but meaty close mk beats almost all wake up options outside his ex tomahawk (this was tested in AE not sure what his buffs were for 2012).

Hope this helps dude.


thanks.
i think i have to use her s.cl.mk more often and i should learn some fuzzysetups the only i use is the balrog one in the corner lol. i always go for the cr.lk > s.mp > fuhajin frametrap after a safejump and if i hit the fuhajin store i exwheel on some characters. i never really thought of it but what does happen when a fuzzy setup gets blocked ? if i go for the j.mp one i would always cancel into divekick but if the j.mp > divekick gets blocked he can commandgrab me. and what are her frames if a j.hp fuzzy gets blocked ? can he command grab me during my ground recovery ? and his air to air normals are insane. he almost always beats out my j.mp.
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Re: Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

Postby Lionwrath » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:37 am

You have 3-4 recovery jump frames after j.hp but if its blocked you'll still be in the air so youre also looking at possible Ultra 2, tomahawk and maybe some anti air normal that i am unsure of. Thats why you have to mix it up. Abuse it at first then go for lows, empty jumps into lows. You can also jump back mp to make yourself safe(r). In your 3-4 recovery frames of any jump you can still tech but its possible for other characters to trip guard you. Ever see Akuma use cr.mk cancel into Demon after an opponent jumps in on him?? Same thing can apply to other moves.

Also note on jump recovery frames. Empty jumps have no recovery frames and can avoid some anti airs such as Guiles cr.hp or deejays cr.hk or even Juri's cr.mp. These anti airs are designed to catch limbs used by the opponent. Also empty jumps are the only way to safe jump shoryukens. But you are taking a risk and guessing between shoryuken and throw.

If you do the fuzzy j.mp on him into dive kick make sure its the lk one. Ex doesnt get full hits for some reason on him. So at worst you'll be at ~2 maybe more.

I'm very knowledgable about the game dont be afraid to hit me up on anything not just Juri related. I'm so lonely in here. Dont go.
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Re: Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

Postby tariikz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:13 pm

Lionwrath wrote:I'm very knowledgable about the game dont be afraid to hit me up on anything not just Juri related. I'm so lonely in here. Dont go.


Haha I'm currently having a problem, but I'm not able to resolve it. I think that I reached a pretty good mediocre level with Juri. I can land my 1 frame links, can do alot of FADC stuff which leads to big damage or frametraps depending on the situation, I know character specific combos and can use them (Genki's maximal punish combos for example) but I am at a certain point where I actually know what I am doing wrong yet it's hard to change my gameplan. I've been playing Juri since I got this game back in January and it's just really frustrating at the moment. I wouldn't even call this plateauing. I just don't really know what seperates a mediocre or average Juri from a really good one (e.g. Genki, you, metallicmike, goodtime/miya, younashi etc.)
I guess it's a midrange problem because once I corner my opponent I can mostly even get the round except if it's fei long since he can push himself back out with ease lol. I am probably failing to exploit the holes in my opponents defense or rather offense which leads to me being more defensive than usual. I probably have a hatred for Shotos not just because of their lame reversal move but also for being awesome around midrange if played properly.
What did you do when you reached that point with Juri ? It's quite a weird situation.I can't really say if I am aware of my mistakes. I also uploaded some matches a while ago, I could even upload new ones if you want/need some to give some advice.
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Re: Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

Postby Lionwrath » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:01 pm

Watch Yossan! Especially Yossan vs some other Japanese ryu (dont know his name)

Honestly when it comes to mid footsie range. You should be trying to prevent people from reaching that spot. It is a troublesome spot for Juri. Her cr.mk is too slow at 6f start up to go against moves like ryu's cr.mk or Fei's. it doesnt have the greatest hurtbox but its easily one of the longest range crouching pokes. Her far mk and far mp serve the footsie war better but they arent cancelable.

My strategy as Juri is to see how easy it is to zone a player. If I'm successful, I keep at it until I push them into the corner. If I'm unsuccessful well then I try to force them into positions where its possible to zone them which is hard to do. Her strength is zoning and I dont think I can stress it enough. Keep people from mid range.

When learning matchups you should go by, how zoneable are they? Then which fake crossups/unblockables work best? Then fuzzy setups?

Fei is zoneable. Dont jump outside of safe jumps. Chicken wing (flip kick move) can be reaction'ed cr.mp'ed. When hes using it to escape safe jump OS low forward. Allow him to escape he will have to work back in to get his damage. Thats all there really is to the match up.
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Re: Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

Postby tariikz » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:10 pm

I found quite a decent corner reset after a cr.mk > fuhajin > FA LVL2 or Focus in general. Just try to cross up your opponent with a j.hk. It whiffs on chun and quite a few others but it works on all shotos and on rufus. You land usually behind them with the option to dash under. You're also in range for a cr.mk > pinwheel (lk pinwheel karathrow is my fav though). If you try that setup on Rufus you hit him in the back but you land in front of him which looks already weird and you can dash under but you would corner yourself so I am not sure if it's useful since you don't want to be cornered by Rufus. Well it looks at least weird on him lol.
It has to be a Level 2 Focus on some characters (didn't test all yet) otherwise the j.hk would whiff. As I said it's actually quite a good setup especially when you just stunned your opponent with a longer combo though it might be a bit slow.

I am not sure if it's a known setup but I haven't seen it yet in any of Emperorcows tutorials or by any other Juris on yt.
I also wanted to post this on genkis thread on srk but the mods won't activate my account for some reason lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoyoksfaE8c&hd=1 here you go
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Re: Juri v.2012 -- central discussion

Postby Gigas81 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:13 am

I hope Lionwrath and the others haven't abandoned this place. Bare with me:

I've skipped all Street Fighter 4 games except Ultra. Reason? I wanted to play a new street fighter that wasn't "missing" things.
I decided to pick a new character instead of the original cast to see if Capcom could "evolve" the play of just throwing hadoukens.
Juri seems to have all of the evolved SF 4.0 skills players want, but none of it can be used effectively to me. Counters? Yes! But only works on normals which is stupid because everyone builds meter with special moves and more times than none your counter is destroyed by some armor breaking move. An ultra that powers up her moves? Yes! But its not powered up, Its like Jin's "last ditch" effect from Marvel vs Capcom 2 which means Juri only has 2 Supers. The Feng Shui Engine doesn't do stun. It doesn't even have properties like, I don't know breaking someones guard?? Its like Tifa's Master Fist; it doesn't work the way its supposed to. An opponent should fear a players Ultra, not just shrug it off.

Multi-stage projectiles? Yes! But in USF4, that doesn't matter because having to wait extra seconds for your projectile to get out is what kills you instead of it being a benefit. Even Guile retains better projectile advantage and he has to charge his sonic boom. I don't go looking for faults in characters. I witnessed this during arcade mode on the hardest setting. Someone has to work incredibly hard just to play with her for all the wrong reasons. Maybe she has to stick around for a long time like Dhalsim to get the recognition she deserves??
"I live my life 3 videogames at a time. Nothing else matters. Not the mortgage, not my clan and their BS. For those 3 games or less, I'm free."


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